Everything in EVE is PVP. Deal with it.

IKEA is efficient, dude. Where else can you shop for furniture and have dinner in the same store?

What about if you don't undock, is it still not ikea?

I don't get the Ikea comparison but you can condense your statement to this:

Competition vs conflict.

Are they both PvP? If yes, HS is competition PvP, Null is conflict PvP.

If you don't see competition as PvP then high sec is a haven from conflict PvP and nothing more.

I'm pretty sure IKEA is in our EVE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwnrlEGCKwU
/c

Thread is corrupted and invalid

but not corrupted yet.

The schism in EVE can be roughly boiled down into this. Some players believe in Darwinian gameplay and some believe in Socialist gameplay.

In Darwinian style the weak get weeded out early and (hopefully) never come back. This has been more or less EVEish since its debut but less and less so every year. We are now trending towards a more (for lack of a better term) socialist gameplay. Don't let the unfit unsubscribe lets coddle them and help them for better or worse. Neither version by your definition has less PVP but the socialist style requires gameplay changes instead of player adaptation.

This is the best I can do to try and describe the hatred in my eve online heart when players call for change based on player ineptitude.

Everyday a new whine with a convoluted analogy.

In fact, the majority of arguments are coming from one alliance (and friends) which is maybe 4 or 5 players in total.

only 5 or 6 players ganking in the whole eve?

Hisec is already safer with sec status requirements, police and concord. Game mechanics and magical NPC protectors what more do you need?

Your argument is invalid and has plenty of holes.

PVP in EVE is about non-consentual PVP.

You totally neglect this. And hi-sec should be no different.

And not everyone pays the same for their sub.

exceeding the common degree or measure; strong; intense

The largest most unfortunate event to happen over the last few years in this game has been the very point I was hoping you'd bring up. The Mining Barge/Exhumer Change. Before the change, exhumers and barges were perfectly tank-able. I myself tried several times to gank a hulk with a destroyer only to find out that hulks are no joke and I barely scratched him. If ones searches my killboard history you'll see I have failed many ganks and never succeded. Oh hey maybe its not as easy as every whiner claims it was eh? They were fit for tank and enjoying the ganker tears mightily. The problem is you had a lazy player-base who didn't want to have to fit a tank or pay attention and whined to CCP to do something about it.

The day CCP changed the GAME to meet the demand of lazy, self entitled idiots will forever to me be ten times worse than the incarna debacle. No, EVE isn't dieing, but it is changing, and unfortunately I think it will alienate those who heavily invested themselves in the Darwinian style of play we all relished so much and thought would never change.

What you'll notice is that we aren't going to go down quietly. In traditional Darwinian fashion we will try and try and try again to keep ganking/scamming/griefing/killing/building/inventing/mining/teaching and playing better than anybody else in the universe. Or at least until it all gets dumbed down so far for those who cant be bothered to put any effort that we will eventually lose interest and go play mech warrior online.

The problem is you HAVE a lazy player-base who don't want to MAKE AN EFFORT and are WHINING to CCP to do something about it.

Notice how your definition does not include any of the words GÇ£completeGÇ¥, GÇ£totalGÇ¥, or GÇ£absoluteGÇ¥. So yes, highsec should be no different than the other sec levels in terms of what PvP dangers you might face.

And it's good argument. They should be able to. There's no reason why highsec should automatically make it impossible.

No it isn't.


They've effectively eliminated ganking by the amount if EHP they gave to miners. And they eliminated it on the behalf of players who never tried eliminating it themselves when they had the power to do so. I don't play EVE for profit, i play EVE for entertainment and that's where your argument has holes.

What could have been avoided in the old system by fitting extenders/hardners and staying aligned has been replaced by a system were anything short or mass suicide won't kill a miner anymore.

The difference is that now they no longer have to make that choice GÇö they are inherently unprofitable unless they actively load up their ships with bait goods. This is a bad thing.

You've convinced me that your either a troll or entirely r3tard3d.

I'm on about how before the patch, ganking miners for profit was possible if the miners chose to; impossible if they chose not to. After the patch, it's impossible regardless because the inherent HP means you have to use a sledge that is more expensive than the loot.

The only way for it to be profitable now is if the miner chooses to bling his ship up with equipment and cargo that has no purpose being on that ship GÇö i.e. if he willingly baits the ganker.

No, it really isn't, because those were the ones who decided whether the miner were a profitable target or not. The ganker had very little say in the matter.

Pre-patch, the miner decided whether he put a tank on the ship or not GÇö if he did, the cost of the gank increased massively and the profit margin quickly shrunk and easily went into the red.
Post-patch, CCP decided that the miner didn't need to tank the ship GÇö the cost of the gank was automatically increased massively to the point where the profit margin was gone even before a tank was added.

The only thing the ganker can do to affect the profit once those decisions are made by the other parties involved is to use cheaper gank ships, but that generally also equates to GÇ£not getting the kill to begin withGÇ¥.

GǪand guess what? You can. Other players my try to stop you and put obstacles in your way, but the game doesn't automatically make it impossible.

GǪbut doing it for profit is not, and the problem is that this isn't because the players choose to make it so but because CCP took away the choice because the players in question refused to make good decisions.

Sorry but once again someone is mixing up pvp - ship fighting - with market competition. Its like confusing the activities of the Free Syrian Army with those of investment bankers, but you might need to wait until you get to be an adult to realise the difference.

No-one dies in EVE market competition, you plonker.

Ho Hum, posting in another "where's my pvp game wah wah wah thread"

lots of stuff about IKEA

market competition is not pvp because you can't pick individual targets to try and bankrupt them, so any trading is PvM - Player versus Market.

You need to do something about that cough of yours.

I've always been against the opinion that EvE is a PvP only game. Sure, the EvE economy is driven primarily by PvP, but by no means does that mean everyone is engaged in it. Player vs Player is a term not limited to EvE, and is used in many MMO's to describe situations where a player is fighting against another player, as opposed to a player fighting against an NPC. By this very defintion, a player is required to be shooting at another player for it to be described at PvP. There are many professions and activities that do not fall into this field, most of them located in high-sec. I've got a friend that literally never undocks, and he spent a long time building mining barges while (sarcastically) boasting about his uber-PvP-skills.

Now i'm sure people can start saying the things they generally say, that everything in EvE boils down to PvP to some degree, with everything ultimately fueling the materials and objects that eventually end up being destroyed in some sort of PvP-based activity. This however, is just another reference to EvE's unique player-driven economy. It doesn't mean everyone is engaged in simultaneous PvP the instant they log in. That requires two or more players shooting at eachother. A miner shooting rocks for minerials is not PvP, nor is those that run missions over and over, or people that trade endlessly, or those that build lots of stuff. Any arguement made to suggest that it is PvP is foolish, and is made by the very people that argue that EvE is a PvP only game. PvP just fuels the demand of the player-driven economy. Of course, you can try to force this "PvP-only" opinion onto people by exploding them, but they will continue to play eve for all the things that have nothing to do with PvP.

Personally, i think EvE is unique and special because it caters to players interested in both PvP and PvE activities. Those interested in PvE stay in highsec, become carebears and do all those boring things that keep them happy. Those that are more PvP orentated (should) go to low and null, where they can blast other players to their hearts content.

I think its a shame that the "PvP-Only" crowd continue to try to force their opinion onto those unwilling and uninterested in that side of EvE. Surely both sides have the right to play EvE for the aspects they enjoy? Though imo, as long as their is a constant flow of easy risk-free gankable targets in high that don't shoot back, the "PvP-only" crowd will continue with their arguements, if only to justify their highsec easy-mode.

That's a lot of words just to say "I don't get it..."
Player vrs Player